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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | San Htat ( C2 Score: 943 ) |
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| When: | 8/06/12 (12:36) | |
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| | Hi all,
Attn: to Matthew,
I am wondering the number of people on C2. I mean when there is a 4 view on my system then there seems to be in the top 20 of the most viewed this hour. I am thinking that is not much. Can we get some sort of campaign going to get more members to C2 and advertently more subscribers to our systems? Our systems have high selling points where the equity curves are good and people need to be more aware of c2 site.
Cheers,
San |
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| | In response to post by San Htat of 8/06/12 (12:36) Hi all,
Attn: to Matthew,
I am wondering the number of people on C2. I mean when there is a 4 view on my system then there seems to be in the top 20 of the most viewed this hour. I am thinking that is not much. Can we get some sort of campaign going to get more members to C2 and advertently more subscribers to our systems? Our systems have high selling points where the equity curves are good and people need to be more aware of c2 site....
See entire
Do not confuse the "Number of views" stat on your system page with "top activity" during a given hour. Number of views only counts only registered users. Activity includes everyone.
And of course your suggestion that Collective2 market the site to increase the number of its users is a very good one. In fact, we do that, and we try to bring as many high-quality users as we can.
Matthew |
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | Lone Ranger |
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| When: | 8/06/12 (17:13) | |
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| | In response to post by Matthew Klein of 8/06/12 (12:53) Do not confuse the "Number of views" stat on your system page with "top activity" during a given hour. Number of views only counts only registered users. Activity includes everyone....
See entire
IMHO, unless you expect subscribers to gamble or just donate their funds, the C2 site should focus on increasing the professionalism of the site and attracting more high quality system vendors. Successful systems will then attract more subscribers.
The greatest strength of the C2 site is the historical trade data and the statistical data that is provided for each trading system (ie. for me, the reviews, popularity, and C2 score are not part of the excellent data). However, after spending a significant amount of time analyzing the data, there are only a handful of systems that are worthy of serious consideration. Claiming to have 19,000 trading systems obsfucates this reality.
I am constantly amazed that C2 has come as far as it has and am only trying to provide constructive feedback because, in the long run, I would expect benefits for myself and others.
Best wishes to all |
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | Antonio Porsia ( C2 Score: 999) |
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| When: | 8/08/12 (7:36) | |
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| | In response to post by Lone Ranger of 8/06/12 (17:13) IMHO, unless you expect subscribers to gamble or just donate their funds, the C2 site should focus on increasing the professionalism of the site and attracting more high quality system vendors. Successful systems will then attract more subscribers....
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A good start could be to put emphasis on real and credible long term trading/investment systems rather than so many gambling systems that one can found on c2.
Parcours Team Parcours Reversal LT |
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | R B |
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| When: | 8/08/12 (11:50) | |
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| | In response to post by Antonio Porsia of 8/08/12 (7:36) A good start could be to put emphasis on real and credible long term trading/investment systems rather than so many gambling systems that one can found on c2....
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I agree.
I think a big part of the problem is unrealistic expectations from most subscribers. I have been following the forum and several systems for a almost a year now, although I have not yet subscribed to any to be honest, and it seems we all want really high returns, with super low drawdowns. It is just unrealistic.
One of the systems I have kept my eye on for example, RTS SPY, has so far delivered what the outside world would consider sexy returns, but the number of views it gathers has so far been slower than other systems I was following with super high returns, that have since disappeared. I am not giving specifics because C2 has a big disclaimer against citing system returns, but you can search the system with system finder.
Other systems that I think are quite good and proven, like the Topaz system, will go through several months of bad returns and then most subscribers will abandon the system.
It seems crazy, no fund manager that I have heard of outperforms consistently. A few with outstanding records, like Peter Lynch, called it quits after a spectacular run in the 80s and now we'll never know. Someone will be bound to drag Buffett into it, but he plays by a different set of rules when reporting returns.
Not to drag on, in the world outside of C2, returns above 15% seem to be considered awesome, and anyone beating the general market by 3 or 4% a year for more than 5 years becomes legendary, even if some years they underperform.
I know C2 was not set up to educate potential investors. But it is a great platform to allow comparison of investment styles. If C2 could find a way to set up screens to allow for a more realistic evaluation, maybe I and other people would finally take the plunge and start subscribing to a system.
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| | In response to post by R B of 8/08/12 (11:50) I agree.
I think a big part of the problem is unrealistic expectations from most subscribers. I have been following the forum and several systems for a almost a year now, although I have not yet subscribed to any to be honest, and it seems we all want really high returns, with super low drawdowns. It is just unrealistic....
See entire
I agree,
It could be a good idea to have C2 increase visibility of systems with low draw-down, consistency, etc so that subscribers could also be attracted to systems not only because of return
One of the problems frequently found by retail traders is the difficulty in following a system, whether the trading rules have been developed by the trader or by a professional developer. Systematically executing on a system requires discipline, which is difficult to maintain in the heat of the live market, emotions can rule the trader's decisions, and the trader may be tempted to out-smart his or her system.
Trading using a systematic approach offers specific advantages (such as establishing rules of money & risk management as well as position sizing), but success is not guaranteed. Nevertheless, all trading systems have cycles and periods where they struggle, that does not mean that the trading system is broken. RTS SPY |
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | Rick Haines ( C2 Score: 988) |
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| When: | 8/08/12 (16:45) | |
| Systems: | RPH, RPH Revised, RPH2, Conservative Growth, Diversified ETF Timer, Extreme Trader, rydex 500, rydex qqqq, self directed 401 timer, SMA, Target 50 stopped trading 8-28-07, Target 60, Ultimate Trader, UT2, Wave Rider stopped trading on 4/25/08 |
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| | In response to post by Blackwood VentureCapital LLC of 8/08/12 (13:49) I agree,
It could be a good idea to have C2 increase visibility of systems with low draw-down, consistency, etc so that subscribers could also be attracted to systems not only because of return
...
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I too wish we could sort by stock investment styles. I would like to see a sort for end of day signals along with ETF exclusive signals. Both of these are what I publish and would like to find others like it more easily.
I am getting more perplexed by the question of what attracts clients to a signal on C2. A few years ago my signals Conservative Growth and SMA were both well received and both had several clients.
My best work by far is my currently broadcast signal RPH. Even though it has a lengthy history and a great return it does not attract any interest. Even so I am earning a great return in my account trading it.
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | Antonio Porsia ( C2 Score: 999) |
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| When: | 8/08/12 (17:42) | |
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| | In response to post by Rick Haines of 8/08/12 (16:45) I too wish we could sort by stock investment styles. I would like to see a sort for end of day signals along with ETF exclusive signals. Both of these are what I publish and would like to find others like it more easily....
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Well, I believe the Grid is here for that purpose isn't?
Easy way to scan viable systems :
- Minimum history of 300 days
- Minimum of 100 trades
- Sharp Ratio above 1.5 or 2
- Max DrawDown below 20/30 pct
For sure using this scan greedy people won't find the parabolic curve they are dreaming for...
Trading is a marathon not a sprint.
Parcours Team
Parcours Reversal LT |
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | Karl A |
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| When: | 8/09/12 (17:39) | |
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| | In response to post by Lone Ranger of 8/06/12 (17:13) IMHO, unless you expect subscribers to gamble or just donate their funds, the C2 site should focus on increasing the professionalism of the site and attracting more high quality system vendors. Successful systems will then attract more subscribers....
See entire
Hello Lone Ranger,
Years ago, and I have been here since mid 2007, I was also a strong advocate of what you are proposing but in the meantime I have changed my mind for the following reasons:
1) In the real world there are very few good system developers but lots and lots of wannabes. The same situation exists in the hedge fund and managed account industry.
2) It seems a lot of subscribers prefer to gamble here rather than go to Las Vegas and who can deny them their right to do so.
3) It is very easy to find the few good systems to your liking by using "The Grid". You can screen by many parameters, like max drawdown, different ratios, etc. Admittedly, C2 could do a better job by better explaining to newbies how to use it and to make it their main tool in selecting systems.
4) Lastly, the steady stream of new vendors is a major income source for C2, maybe the most important one, this in turn enables C2 to keep the listing fees for vendors and the auto trading fees for subscribers at a reasonable level.
Just some food for thought,
Karl |
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | Lone Ranger |
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| When: | 8/09/12 (19:35) | |
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| | In response to post by Karl A of 8/09/12 (17:39) Hello Lone Ranger,
Years ago, and I have been here since mid 2007, I was also a strong advocate of what you are proposing but in the meantime I have changed my mind for the following reasons:
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Karl - I really appreciate your advice, as well as the comments from the other posters in this thread. Your points are very good and I now understand that there may be limited potential to attract more high quality system vendors.
So the subscriber is left to his own devices to find the systems with acceptable risk and profitability. Yes, it is easy to use "the grid" but it is still very difficult to select a system that will be profitable. I put a lot of effort into analyzing the trading strategy for each system that I select. I do not care if the annual return is 20% or 200% as long as a system is likely to be profitable. During the past 7 months I have analyzed and subscribed to 7 systems. I have gained from 4 of the systems and lost with 3 of the systems. Overall, the losses have been greater than the gains. Out of the 7 systems, I have abandoned 6 as I better understood their potential risks.
If you really meant that it is easy to find a few systems that will be profitable, perhaps you could start a new thread describing some guidelines to select systems. Also, I would be happy to explain how I conduct my analysis.
PS - A comment to R B - Topaz was one of the systems that I analyzed in depth. I consider myself lucky to have lost only $2500 by trading this system. I think that the future for Topaz is not good. I do appreciate your suggestion to look at RTS SPY in more detail. |
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | Lone Ranger |
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| When: | 8/10/12 (1:13) | |
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| | In response to post by Lone Ranger of 8/09/12 (19:35) Karl - I really appreciate your advice, as well as the comments from the other posters in this thread. Your points are very good and I now understand that there may be limited potential to attract more high quality system vendors....
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | INTJ Capital LLC ( C2 Score: 971) |
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| When: | 8/10/12 (1:18) | |
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| | In response to post by Matthew Klein of 8/06/12 (12:53) Do not confuse the "Number of views" stat on your system page with "top activity" during a given hour. Number of views only counts only registered users. Activity includes everyone....
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Matthew,
How can I filter the grid to show only those systems that have qualified for TOS? I can't seem to find the toggle/option. Thanks. |
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| | In response to post by INTJ Capital LLC of 8/10/12 (1:18) Matthew,
How can I filter the grid to show only those systems that have qualified for TOS? I can't seem to find the toggle/option. Thanks.
We'll be adding that very shortly. - Matthew |
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | Antonio Porsia ( C2 Score: 999) |
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| When: | 8/10/12 (11:59) | |
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| | In response to post by Matthew Klein of 8/10/12 (10:51) We'll be adding that very shortly. - Matthew
Matt
Do you intend to include Interactive Brokers in the TOS program ?
Thanks
Parcours Team
Parcours Reversal LT |
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | Karl A |
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| When: | 8/10/12 (17:16) | |
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| | In response to post by Lone Ranger of 8/10/12 (1:13) Karl - If you are interested in starting a new thread to describe some guidelines for selecting systems, I am not suggesting to start from scratch. Perhaps we could build on the following two threads that I have found to be helpful (I note that you were a contributor to both threads):
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Lone Ranger,
The two threads you outlined are excellent of how to go about the selection process and weed out the bad systems. It is very instructive to read them again, I like especially the comments from Rene Koch, Myth Buster and Kevin Davey and there is nothing I can add to it.
When I said it is easy to find the good systems on The Grid, I meant good systems relative to your preferences. In other words you set all the parameters according to your preferences and risk tolerance. After you end up with the list you do some further checking as outlined by Myth Buster, Rene Koch and Kevin Davey. Then you try to build a portfolio, capital permitting, of as many non correlating systems as you can. Success can never be guaranteed because market always change and few systems can automatically adapt so I often find myself adjusting my portfolio. All we can do is deal with probabilities.
One more thought, according to Jeremy Siegel (Stocks for the Long-Run) the stock market over the last 100 years has returned annually on average 6.6% afte inflation, so lets say about 10% with inflation. Based on that metric I think you will find quite a number of attractive systems on C2.
Karl |
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | R B |
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| When: | 8/10/12 (20:50) | |
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| | In response to post by Karl A of 8/10/12 (17:16) Lone Ranger,
The two threads you outlined are excellent of how to go about the selection process and weed out the bad systems. It is very instructive to read them again, I like especially the comments from Rene Koch, Myth Buster and Kevin Davey and there is nothing I can add to it....
See entire
Lone Ranger,
Great threads, but they do illustrate the ridiculous expectations some people have. 200%, even 100% annual sustained over any significant period of time is just unrealistic.
I feel your pain if you lost money on Topaz, I was just citing an example of the amount of time it took close to 100 subscribers to bail, once the system started heading down, even after 3 years plus of very decent returns. But even your bad experience highlights the problem. Topaz did not drop more last year than it did in 2008. So anyone subscribing might have expected that a similar drop was possible (although this time it lasted a lot longer). Maybe this time it will not bounce back, but if it does, all subscribers who bailed will just have done the classic invest-after-good-performance sell-after-some-losses miss-bounce-back.
I think Karl has the right of it, no system is guaranteed. But a nice combination of systems with a 15 to 26% return would be ideal to achieve.
And I still think that C2 should have some type of screen beyond the grid to really compare systems apples to apples. Comparing a super leveraged high frequency forex or futures system with a discretionary stock system using only stats gives an incomplete picture. |
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | Karl A |
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| When: | 8/10/12 (22:35) | |
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| | In response to post by R B of 8/10/12 (20:50) Lone Ranger,
Great threads, but they do illustrate the ridiculous expectations some people have. 200%, even 100% annual sustained over any significant period of time is just unrealistic....
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RB, just a quick note:
I did not subscribe to Topaz except for a short trial period way back and I mentioned this on the first highlighted thread by Lone Ranger - why? Exactly because of the big drawdown in 2008, remember the biggest drawdowns will always be in the future. According to my rough calculation, the recent dd of Topaz is about 35%, less than 2008.
By the way, I still think Topaz will recover but even if it does not that will nothing take away from the valuable contribution and advice Rene gave in those threads.
Karl |
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | Mr. Eydelman ( C2 Score: 996) |
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| When: | 8/10/12 (23:58) | |
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| | In response to post by Karl A of 8/10/12 (22:35) RB, just a quick note:
I did not subscribe to Topaz except for a short trial period way back and I mentioned this on the first highlighted thread by Lone Ranger - why? Exactly because of the big drawdown in 2008, remember the biggest drawdowns will always be in the future. According to my rough calculation, the recent dd of Topaz is about 35%, less than 2008....
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I have posted about how to make money from C2 vendors here before but I think people took it as a joke because it sounds crazy, so I will tell you the secret again;
Sign up to 5 brand new systems preferably forex, then set up auto-trade to the OPPOSITE direction of each trade, the odds of making money goes to 95% or higher, as systems crash and your account explodes to the upside then you find another new strategy or two to replace and keep rolling them, and if you think about it everyone wins- C2 makes money from the vendor-the vendor makes money from subscribers-and you have a better chance of making money rather than to just gamble and pick one.
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | Igor Smirnoff ( C2 Score: 19) |
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| When: | 8/11/12 (15:04) | |
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| | In response to post by Mr. Eydelman of 8/10/12 (23:58) I have posted about how to make money from C2 vendors here before but I think people took it as a joke because it sounds crazy, so I will tell you the secret again;
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Mr. Eydelman wrote :
"Sign up to 5 brand new systems preferably forex, then set up auto-trade to the OPPOSITE direction of each trade, the odds of making money goes to 95% or higher"
Mr. Eydelman, be careful with this seemingly brilliant idea, for example if 90% of new retail traders lose money in the Forex (and futures) market in the long run, then doing the exact opposite of what they are doing won't necessarily make you money, far from it.
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | Igor Smirnoff ( C2 Score: 19) |
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| When: | 8/11/12 (15:26) | |
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| | In response to post by Blackwood VentureCapital LLC of 8/08/12 (13:49) I agree,
It could be a good idea to have C2 increase visibility of systems with low draw-down, consistency, etc so that subscribers could also be attracted to systems not only because of return
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Blackwood Venturecapital llc wrote: "It could be a good idea to have C2 increase visibility of systems with low draw-down, consistency, etc so that subscribers could also be attracted to systems not only because of return "
Each trader has his own risk tolerance limit. Some traders simply want a system that offers a modest but steady income with a 15% draw down or less, while others want to turn their $10.000 into $1.000.000 quickly even if they have to go through a 99% drawdown to achieve that goal!
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| | In response to post by Igor Smirnoff of 8/11/12 (15:26) Blackwood Venturecapital llc wrote: "It could be a good idea to have C2 increase visibility of systems with low draw-down, consistency, etc so that subscribers could also be attracted to systems not only because of return "
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Dear Igor
We wish you all the best in your endevours converting 10k into 1mm
In our humble opinion trading is about a rule based systematic system.
Trying to take the sprint 10k to 1mm could only quickly lead to bankrupcy but possibly we are wrong
Trade safe, all the best,
The RuleTradingSystems Team RTS SPY |
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | Rick Haines ( C2 Score: 988) |
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| When: | 8/11/12 (16:24) | |
| Systems: | RPH, RPH Revised, RPH2, Conservative Growth, Diversified ETF Timer, Extreme Trader, rydex 500, rydex qqqq, self directed 401 timer, SMA, Target 50 stopped trading 8-28-07, Target 60, Ultimate Trader, UT2, Wave Rider stopped trading on 4/25/08 |
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| | In response to post by San Htat of 8/06/12 (12:36) Hi all,
Attn: to Matthew,
I am wondering the number of people on C2. I mean when there is a 4 view on my system then there seems to be in the top 20 of the most viewed this hour. I am thinking that is not much. Can we get some sort of campaign going to get more members to C2 and advertently more subscribers to our systems? Our systems have high selling points where the equity curves are good and people need to be more aware of c2 site....
See entire
Interesting forum to say the least. Some really good things being discussed here. More of the same would only be good for all.
I started my first signal here on C2 in 2006. I have been a steady signal broadcaster since then. I have had a few good signals that attracted clients and several that did not.
Let me add a little different outlook on signal vending here on C2. I publish these signals for a couple of good reasons. First and foremost to track a trading idea in real time with statistics provided me by C2. I feel $98.00 is not a bad fee for an education and lesson learned that may be worth millions.
When I was successful vending signals Conservative Growth and SMA I learned much from my clients. It took a couple of years and several people telling me they could not trade my short signals because they only trade in an IRA. Finally I started publishing signals using inverse ETF’s. Soon I took a closer look at my taxes and realized this was great wisdom. I am now a firm believer in the fact you cannot trade in a taxable trading account and win. The government just takes too much.
Some of my signals have been for portfolio tracking and some of them have been for my own research. My current published signals are a great example of each. I trade RPH in my 401 using 60% of my account balance. I came out with my newest signal RPH2 as a research project. It is calculated differently than RPH however very similar. Eventually I will either continue to broadcast both signals. RPH because I am trading it with my 401 and if RPH2 stands up to the task I will use it in my IRA, There is a very good possibility I will combine the 2. Discontinue them both and come out with the combined signal.
I have leaned much from broadcasting on C2. In 6 years I have evolved from a very small signal broadcaster wanting to earn money vending signals to a much bigger fish just wanting to learn trading.
Finally I would like to bring up an important point. Successful trading is not about keeping your eye on the end game. It is about the steps you are taking along the way. If you are trading to make yourself rich you are here for the wrong reasons and your motives will likely create a methodology that will trip you up and do exactly the opposite of what you intend. Trading is about self discipline and personal growth. Since trading is extremely difficult to do correctly if you don’t focus on what it is to be a good trader your focus will not be beneficial and you will most likely lose. To be a successful trader one must have an iron clad sense of self and determination that cannot be shook. Trading can be the most powerful personal growth tool you will ever engage in, or it can limit you financially and cause you great distress. It is all centered on focus and intent.
Focus on trading correctly and intend on being the best trader you can be. The money will come flowing to you thru the back door.
That’s all I have got to say bout that.
Rick Haines
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | Igor Smirnoff ( C2 Score: 19) |
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| When: | 8/11/12 (18:10) | |
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| | In response to post by Blackwood VentureCapital LLC of 8/11/12 (16:19) Dear Igor
We wish you all the best in your endevours converting 10k into 1mm
In our humble opinion trading is about a rule based systematic system....
See entire
Hello again,
Believe it or not, some systems developers here on C2 managed to generate tremendous profits for their subscribers, with only a modest starting capital.
Look at this system for example, the vendor turned a mere $28,052 into $2.7 MILLIONS dollars in less than 4 years, see for yourself: http://collective2.com/cgi-perl/system35893350
Yes, you read correctly, that's 2.7 MILLIONS profit in less than 4 years.
And what is even more amazing is that the starting capital ($28,052) was preserved the whole time, which is quite a feat!
(Yes, the maximum drawdown exceeded 80%, but the "losses" came from the profits, not from the initital capital itself)
Would I trade such system? Probably not (too late now, the system is playing with the house's money already and can afford large "drawdowns"), but it just shows that making millions on C2 is not only possible, but has been already been achieved, as you can clearly see in this one example alone.
Happy trading and have a good weekend. |
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | Rick Haines ( C2 Score: 988) |
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| When: | 8/11/12 (18:43) | |
| Systems: | RPH, RPH Revised, RPH2, Conservative Growth, Diversified ETF Timer, Extreme Trader, rydex 500, rydex qqqq, self directed 401 timer, SMA, Target 50 stopped trading 8-28-07, Target 60, Ultimate Trader, UT2, Wave Rider stopped trading on 4/25/08 |
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| | In response to post by Igor Smirnoff of 8/11/12 (18:10) Hello again,
Believe it or not, some systems developers here on C2 managed to generate tremendous profits for their subscribers, with only a modest starting capital....
See entire
A great example of why when evaluating signals one should look at the reviews posted by traders of the signal.
Rick |
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | Igor Smirnoff ( C2 Score: 19) |
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| When: | 8/11/12 (20:09) | |
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| | In response to post by Rick Haines of 8/11/12 (18:43) A great example of why when evaluating signals one should look at the reviews posted by traders of the signal.
Rick
Mr Haines, the fact remains that if you had 30k to invest in the system shown above, you would have close to 3 million good old American dollars sitting in your bank account right now, regardless of any C2 review.
And please look again at the equity curve, your initial 30K ($28,052 to be exact) was never at risk at any time. |
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | R B |
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| When: | 8/12/12 (13:09) | |
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| | In response to post by Igor Smirnoff of 8/11/12 (20:09) Mr Haines, the fact remains that if you had 30k to invest in the system shown above, you would have close to 3 million good old American dollars sitting in your bank account right now, regardless of any C2 review....
See entire
All these comments on how to find the system that will yield the best results are fascinating, however, we seem to have drifted a wee bit away from the original question:
How to attract more members to the C2 website?
I will return to that in a moment. But as I read Igor's comments a thought struck me, successful roulette playing would be a wonderful system. At a 35 to 1 payout (at the highest payout bets) you only need to hit it twice to take your 28k to a little over 3.4 million.
Now Igor and quite a few C2 members will surely be quick to point out the many flaws in the proposal above. The more religious might complain it is gambling. The risk averse crowd might point out there is a very low chance of actually wining, and if you miss the bet you loose everything. The more mathematically inclined might point out that a 35 to 1 payout, with a mere 1 in 37 chances to win, actually yields a negative value for the bet, which means that over time you will loose money. Common folks might just remind me that in Vegas the house always wins (plus I am pretty sure that if the system won more than two times in a row, the developer might find his kneecaps busted).
Then someone will bring out the coin flipping gorillas (for those who might not be familiar, simple probability means that if 1,000 gorillas were to flip a coin 10 times, 1 of the gorillas would be able to get his coin to flip heads every time). C2 tells us that 19,000 systems have been started through the last roughly 10 years. So we should have at least 19 systems that have gotten it right every time, just through sheer numbers.
I do not mean to play down what Shadow Banker has achieved. Maybe (to miss-quote Joe Pesci) the laws of physics work differently in his kitchen. But when I get back to the question of how to attract more members to C2, focusing on those who want to play roulette does not seem like the most satisfactory option, or at least there should be a simpler way to highlight other options.
This post is already to long, but in my opinion the Grid favors coin tossing gorillas, and makes it difficult, rather than easy, to spot and select good systems that use a different approach to investing.
Feel free to disagree, but consider how much attention was centered around a system called Direxion TNA/TZA (or something similar) back in Oct-Nov 2011. The developer was very aggressive in the forums, and to be honest the system was going up like a rocket. The fact he had already crashed and burned about 30 systems did not stop his system from dominating the Dashboard as the most looked at system (and did not stop me from toying with the idea of catching a ride and making a ton of money). Fast forward a year and his systems are gone, although I am sure we will hear from Pal again in the future.
I think long term, many potential subscribers (myself included) would benefit from some type of tool that did not focus mainly on outsized returns, but rather on solid, consistent returns. And if enough people start making good returns by investing in C2, I am pretty certain that the members will come.
Happy end of the Olympics to all, |
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| | In response to post by R B of 8/12/12 (13:09) All these comments on how to find the system that will yield the best results are fascinating, however, we seem to have drifted a wee bit away from the original question:
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Dear R B
We couldn't agree more with your thorough explanation, feel free to visit our system and webpage, we are always open to grow and learn through idea exchange, if your are interested we are always available via e-mail or skype
Regards,
The RuleTradingSystems Team
RTS SPY |
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | INTJ Capital LLC ( C2 Score: 971) |
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| When: | 8/12/12 (17:05) | |
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| | In response to post by R B of 8/12/12 (13:09) All these comments on how to find the system that will yield the best results are fascinating, however, we seem to have drifted a wee bit away from the original question:
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There are really only two critical factors in attracting more users: increasing awareness and access. Increasing awareness comes from advertising and positive press coverage. I have seen occasional banner ads for Collective2 (although they are typically cryptic, something along the lines of getting rid of humans), but that's probably because I already visit C2 and its competitors sites. I see almost no press coverage of C2. I see C2's competitors covered all the time in Barron's, Fortune, Forbes, WSJ, etc. when discussing the next generation of investing advice, so I'm not sure what they're doing that C2 is not to get such coverage.
The second critical factor is to increase access. Remember Willie Sutton's axiom about robbing banks. Until C2 has Gen3 relationships (and I mean trading stocks, which is what the vast majority of retail investors trade) with TD Ameritrade, Schwab, E-Trade, Interactive Brokers, etc., it will never be more than a niche player. In the three years since I've discovered C2, not much has happened in that regard (except OptionsXpress has gone away), so I am going to assume that the brokers want to have nothing to do with C2. Sorry, but OpenECry and MB Trading as the only Gen3 stock trading options are not going to move the needle. There might be a more esoteric option in terms of having registered investment advisors take some role as an intermediary to bridge between C2 and the brokers (much as BulldogFX does for futures on Interactive Brokers), but I don't know how that would work in a regulatory or technological sense.
Matthew Klein is a smart guy, so I'm sure he's already thought of all of this and done what he can. After all, more users benefits him the most (more subscription revenue, more autotrade license fees, more vendor listing fees). I think what we have is what we are going to have for the foreseeable future. |
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | Igor Smirnoff ( C2 Score: 19) |
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| When: | 8/12/12 (17:09) | |
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| | In response to post by R B of 8/12/12 (13:09) All these comments on how to find the system that will yield the best results are fascinating, however, we seem to have drifted a wee bit away from the original question:
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See entire
Hi there,
I will come back to your roulette comments later, for now let's answer this question : how do we attract more people to C2, and more importantly, to our own C2 trading system(s)?
The answer is quite simple : we need to advertise. Here are some suggestions...
1: The easiest and cheapest way is to hit every trading forum you can find and answer some questions or start a new thread, and then put your C2 link in your "signature". If you participate regularly more and more people will start clicking on your link.
2: Advertise your C2 link on Google, Bing or Yahoo via their pay-per-click program, using keywords like "forex trading system" or "free trading signals" (assuming you offer free trafing signals for a week or a month), this will attract highly targeted people to your C2 website.
3: Advertise off-line. Start with your local newspaper with ads like this : "Attention traders! Free accurate and profitable trading signals. 20% yearly return since inception. Visit : www.MySystem..."; You can also advertise in the trade magazines and newspapers (classifieds or display ads) like Investor's Business Daily, Stocks and Commodities magazines, Futures, Barron's, etc.
4: Have deep pockets? Then buy full-page ads in the Wall Street Journal, you will attract tons of prospects (and Matthew will be thrilled :-)) !
5: Finally, make good money for your subscribers (while maintaining a reasonable drawdown) and the rest will take care of itself.
Take care for now, I have to watch my Forex platform, my system spotted a few potential trades already...
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | Dusan ( C2 Score: 985) |
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| When: | 8/13/12 (7:07) | |
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| | In response to post by R B of 8/10/12 (20:50) Lone Ranger,
Great threads, but they do illustrate the ridiculous expectations some people have. 200%, even 100% annual sustained over any significant period of time is just unrealistic....
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@ R B
"And I still think that C2 should have some type of screen beyond the grid to really compare systems apples to apples. Comparing a super leveraged high frequency forex or futures system with a discretionary stock system using only stats gives an incomplete picture. "
When using grid, just enter your filter parameters and select only one asset class (stocks, futures, currencies). That way you'll compare apples to apples.
Steady Profits |
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| Subject: | Attracting more members to the C2 website. |
| Posted by: | User Removed ( C2 Score: 971) |
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| When: | 8/15/12 (5:55) | |
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| | In response to post by Dusan of 8/13/12 (7:07) @ R B
"And I still think that C2 should have some type of screen beyond the grid to really compare systems apples to apples. Comparing a super leveraged high frequency forex or futures system with a discretionary stock system using only stats gives an incomplete picture. "
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This is an excellent thread and I'd like to thank all of you for contributing because I feel like we're all on the same wave length. I too feel very strongly about the concept of C2 and want to see it grow to its epic potential. I agree we can all make some waves, perhaps small at first, by adding posts around the Internet with links to C2 and by running add campaigns insofar as our personal budgets allow. As for increasing the number of Gen3 compatible brokers this is a really important next step. The C2 team, however, can only do so much, but we have the ability to help out in this regard. Over the last few months I have been suggesting/urging/harassing my brokers to get them signed up with C2. Generally I receive replies such as, "We are not pursuing that at this time". Please join me in sending requests to your executing brokers urging them to become C2 Gen3 compatible.
Thanks,
Discontinued, please see new system |
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