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| Subject: | Does C2 support Buy and Sell at the same time? |
| Posted by: | sam ye ( C2 Score: 619 ) |
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| When: | 7/17/10 (10:09) | |
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| | I tried to enter pending Buy Limit/Stop and Sell Limit/Stop at MT4 but only the one side of the trade get sent to C2 whichever entered first. If I place pending Buy Limit, the Sell Limit order didn't get sent to C2.
Is this working as designed?
Thanks |
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| Subject: | Does C2 support Buy and Sell at the same time? |
| Posted by: | Matthew Klein (Admin) |
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| When: | 7/18/10 (10:31) | |
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| | In response to post by sam ye of 7/17/10 (10:09) I tried to enter pending Buy Limit/Stop and Sell Limit/Stop at MT4 but only the one side of the trade get sent to C2 whichever entered first. If I place pending Buy Limit, the Sell Limit order didn't get sent to C2....
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We don't support hedging, which means you can't have open positions both long and short the same instrument. However, you should certainly be able to have two sets of pending orders working in the market, i.e. you could set up a Sell To Open Stop XXX and a Buy To Open Stop YYY to bracket the current price, and then one of the orders would be executed.
Please contact Duncan, the independent developer of the C2/MT4 interface, since he is able to explain to MetaTrader users, accustomed to hedging, how to interact with C2.
He can be reached via this email box: MThelp@collective2.com
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| Subject: | Does C2 support Buy and Sell at the same time? |
| Posted by: | Alex Winters ( C2 Score: 188) |
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| When: | 9/02/10 (20:21) | |
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| | In response to post by Matthew Klein of 7/18/10 (10:31) We don't support hedging, which means you can't have open positions both long and short the same instrument. However, you should certainly be able to have two sets of pending orders working in the market, i.e. you could set up a Sell To Open Stop XXX and a Buy To Open Stop YYY to bracket the current price, and then one of the orders would be executed....
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Just wondering why C2 doesnt support hedging (dont some of the brokers you use allow hedging?) - Their are valid hedging strategies and it seems like it would be up to the end user to decide if they wanted to use a hedging EA or not. Just askin'. |
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| Subject: | Does C2 support Buy and Sell at the same time? |
| Posted by: | Kevin Davey ( C2 Score: 1000) |
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| When: | 9/02/10 (21:25) | |
| Systems: | 3 Pair Forex, Congress ES, ETF Basket, Gen 2 - Mini S&P Only, Gen 3 - Mini S&P Only, KJ Mini Action, KJ Mini SP, KJ Price Action, Relative ETF, SFE, Trender, Gen 1 - Mini S&P Only (Closed), KJ Test 1 (closed), Master Mini S&P, Mighty Mini S&P, Mini N&R, No Trades Since Jan 08, Notable Nasdaq Mini |
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| | In response to post by Alex Winters of 9/02/10 (20:21) Just wondering why C2 doesnt support hedging (dont some of the brokers you use allow hedging?) - Their are valid hedging...
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Hedging (in forex) isn't allowed in the US. Being long and short the same instrument costs extra spreads and commissions, and gives you no benefit. It is the same as being flat.
Over the past few years, I have asked people on various trading forums to present a case where being long and short the same instrument at the same time made financial sense. I am willing to learn how this can make sense.
No one has ever been able to do this. |
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| Subject: | Does C2 support Buy and Sell at the same time? |
| Posted by: | Alex Winters ( C2 Score: 188) |
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| When: | 9/04/10 (8:06) | |
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| | In response to post by Kevin Davey of 9/02/10 (21:25) Hedging (in forex) isn't allowed in the US. Being long and short the same instrument costs extra spreads and commissions, and gives you no benefit. It is the same as being flat.
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| Subject: | Does C2 support Buy and Sell at the same time? |
| Posted by: | Kevin Davey ( C2 Score: 1000) |
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| When: | 9/04/10 (10:13) | |
| Systems: | 3 Pair Forex, Congress ES, ETF Basket, Gen 2 - Mini S&P Only, Gen 3 - Mini S&P Only, KJ Mini Action, KJ Mini SP, KJ Price Action, Relative ETF, SFE, Trender, Gen 1 - Mini S&P Only (Closed), KJ Test 1 (closed), Master Mini S&P, Mighty Mini S&P, Mini N&R, No Trades Since Jan 08, Notable Nasdaq Mini |
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| | In response to post by Alex Winters of 9/04/10 (8:06) This is my hedging system that I would LOVE to use on C2 but...
http://www.myfxbook.com/my/members/Fulltime247/hedgepro-expired/2780
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How? Please explain how being long and short the same time is better than being flat. Like I said, I've asked this question for years, and no one can explain it.
If your method works, it is for things you are doing other than hedging.
I can GUARANTEE you would do better by being flat, rather than being long and short at the same time. It is simple math. The only benefit you get is that bookkeeping might be a little easier (rather than tracking positions yourself). But you pay s[reads and commissions for this service.
Once again, if you can show me I am wrong, I'm listening.
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| Subject: | Does C2 support Buy and Sell at the same time? |
| Posted by: | Alex Winters ( C2 Score: 188) |
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| When: | 9/04/10 (12:43) | |
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| | In response to post by Kevin Davey of 9/04/10 (10:13) How? Please explain how being long and short the same time is better than being flat. Like I said, I've asked this question for years, and no one can explain it.
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"The only benefit you get is that bookkeeping might be a little easier (rather than tracking positions yourself). But you pay s[reads and commissions for this service."
BINGO!!!! Of course I could do the same thing with partial open/closing but hedging makes the position manipulation so much easier. The extra commissions are easily worth it. (and in practice the costs are negligible)
Also I agree with your statement that if my method works, it is for things I are doing other than hedging. - Of course my unique trade entry/management/exit rules are that keys that make it profitable but I still maintain that profitable systems can be created from a variety of trading methods - hedging is just one of many. |
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| Subject: | Does C2 support Buy and Sell at the same time? |
| Posted by: | Kevin Davey ( C2 Score: 1000) |
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| When: | 9/04/10 (12:55) | |
| Systems: | 3 Pair Forex, Congress ES, ETF Basket, Gen 2 - Mini S&P Only, Gen 3 - Mini S&P Only, KJ Mini Action, KJ Mini SP, KJ Price Action, Relative ETF, SFE, Trender, Gen 1 - Mini S&P Only (Closed), KJ Test 1 (closed), Master Mini S&P, Mighty Mini S&P, Mini N&R, No Trades Since Jan 08, Notable Nasdaq Mini |
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| | In response to post by Alex Winters of 9/04/10 (12:43) "The only benefit you get is that bookkeeping might be a little easier (rather than tracking positions yourself). But you pay s[reads and commissions for this service."
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In that case, I would think you could modify the EA to do the bookkeeping internally within the EA code, and then only output the net trade actions. If I knew EA, I'd be glad to help. I would think it would be easy for an EA programmer.
That way, you'd get the benefit you speak of, and you'd be able to offer it on C2.
Best wishes,
Kevin
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| Subject: | Does C2 support Buy and Sell at the same time? |
| Posted by: | Mike Hatanian ( C2 Score: 652) |
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| When: | 10/26/10 (13:24) | |
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| | In response to post by Kevin Davey of 9/04/10 (12:55) In that case, I would think you could modify the EA to do the bookkeeping internally within the EA code, and then only output the net trade actions. If I knew EA, I'd be glad to help. I would think it would be easy for an EA programmer....
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I can tell you when being long and short at the same time is beneficial. I have a gap trade strategy in the ES, and i have a trending strategy in the ES.. One is short from the open, the other give me a long signal. They both have different targets and stop parameters.
There's your example of being long and short at the same time. ES Trend Select |
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| Subject: | Does C2 support Buy and Sell at the same time? |
| Posted by: | Kevin Davey ( C2 Score: 1000) |
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| When: | 10/26/10 (14:28) | |
| Systems: | 3 Pair Forex, Congress ES, ETF Basket, Gen 2 - Mini S&P Only, Gen 3 - Mini S&P Only, KJ Mini Action, KJ Mini SP, KJ Price Action, Relative ETF, SFE, Trender, Gen 1 - Mini S&P Only (Closed), KJ Test 1 (closed), Master Mini S&P, Mighty Mini S&P, Mini N&R, No Trades Since Jan 08, Notable Nasdaq Mini |
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| | In response to post by Mike Hatanian of 10/26/10 (13:24) I can tell you when being long and short at the same time is beneficial. I have a gap trade strategy in the ES, and i have a trending strategy in the ES.. One is short from the open, the other give me a long signal. They both have different targets and stop parameters....
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I'm sure you realize when you are both long and short you are flat. But if you are doing it for bookeeping purposes (with keeping track of different stops and targets), I understand where you are coming from. I do the same thing, within my trading software, so all my real money account sees is the net order (flat, in this case).
Some people think being long at one price and short at another price at the same time equates to a net position that is not 100% flat. That is what is incorrect. |
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| Subject: | Does C2 support Buy and Sell at the same time? |
| Posted by: | Victor Karapetjanc ( C2 Score: 908) |
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| When: | 11/28/10 (15:09) | |
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| | In response to post by Kevin Davey of 9/02/10 (21:25) Hedging (in forex) isn't allowed in the US. Being long and short the same instrument costs extra spreads and commissions, and gives you no benefit. It is the same as being flat.
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If you have a portfolio of trading strategies for same currency pair, you can not run them simultaneously (for diversification purposes) on the account with no hedging. This is when hedging enabled account is needed. |
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| Subject: | Does C2 support Buy and Sell at the same time? |
| Posted by: | Jeffrey Senecal ( C2 Score: 302) |
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| When: | 11/29/10 (18:22) | |
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| | In response to post by Victor Karapetjanc of 11/28/10 (15:09) If you have a portfolio of trading strategies for same currency pair, you can not run them simultaneously (for diversifi...
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Of course you can. You would just trade the combined net position of all your strategies. What benefit is there to trade extra positions that just cancel each other out? People who think there's an advantage to "hedging" have really not thought things through. |
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| Subject: | Does C2 support Buy and Sell at the same time? |
| Posted by: | Black Box |
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| When: | 11/29/10 (19:31) | |
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| | In response to post by Jeffrey Senecal of 11/29/10 (18:22) Of course you can. You would just trade the combined net position of all your strategies. What benefit is there to tra...
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99.9% of people here think of a hedge as something thats green and needs trimming. |
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| Subject: | Does C2 support Buy and Sell at the same time? |
| Posted by: | Victor Karapetjanc ( C2 Score: 908) |
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| When: | 12/06/10 (10:53) | |
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| | In response to post by Jeffrey Senecal of 11/29/10 (18:22) Of course you can. You would just trade the combined net position of all your strategies. What benefit is there to tra...
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Think!
Or Imagine!
You have 25 strategies running only EURUSD currency pair that are working 24h a day 5 days a week. Can you monitor your system and manually do calculations each time a new trades is open in order to trade the combine net positions? Sure you can, just use RedBull, ALOT! |
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