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| Subject: | Fx-auto/C2 live results are WAY OFF!!!! |
| Posted by: | Dan Hubrich ( C2 Score: 723 ) |
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| When: | 5/31/06 (11:04) | |
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| | I've been trading the Aestreux fund live via C2/Fx-auto for the last 3 days and my results are about 50% of the published gains on C2. All the winners are smaller in real life and all the losers are bigger. Go figure! Is anyone experiencing this? I can't figure if it's C2's crazy "barclays" feed....whatever the heck that is, or if there is just significant slippage going on. Some entries are 10-15 pips different from the live account vs C2 published results. I"M NOT TOO HAPPY SO FAR with this set up. |
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| Subject: | Fx-auto/C2 live results are WAY OFF!!!! |
| Posted by: | Dan Hubrich ( C2 Score: 723) |
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| When: | 5/31/06 (11:16) | |
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| | In response to post by Dan Hubrich of 5/31/06 (11:04) I've been trading the Aestreux fund live via C2/Fx-auto for the last 3 days and my results are about 50% of the publishe...
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I forgot to mention that FXDD has some of the tightest spreads in the industry, so results should technically be BETTER in live trading than what is posted on C2. So this tells me that there are some major time delays (and/or glitches in this setup) from the time the signal goes out from the provider to actually getting executed by fx-auto. Can anyone comment on this? I'd be happy to post some actual trades so you can see how far off it is. |
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| Subject: | Fx-auto/C2 live results are WAY OFF!!!! |
| Posted by: | winning forex ( C2 Score: 194) |
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| When: | 5/31/06 (12:05) | |
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| | In response to post by Dan Hubrich of 5/31/06 (11:16) I forgot to mention that FXDD has some of the tightest spreads in the industry, so results should technically be BETTER ...
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I've been using fx-auto for months now. Here is some info that will hopefully help.
1) I used to place all my signals as stop or limit orders. If they are far enough from the current market position there is usually no problem. If they are too close to the market position, I believe fxdd won't place an order within 5 pips of market, the order is probably queued. Then if market moves back enough to place the order it gets placed, and if the market passes the entry price it becomes a market order, so slippage no doubt.
2) I now use market orders to close positions. What happens at c2 is never the same as fx-auto. There is always slippage one way or the other. Since I am just closing, the slippage so far is evening out. Sometimes 5 pips less at fx-auto, sometimes 5 pips more. Depends on what the market does.
3) If entries are made at market, then you are at the mercy of the email speed and processing. If market is moving fast you will lose out on slippage. I have timed many emails and some can take over 2 minutes from time of signal until it gets placed at fx-auto. This can easily cause 15 pips slipppage or more. If the system is "stopping" into the market, rarely will you ever get positive slippage. (stopping into the market means entering in the direction of its current movement). If one were to use limit orders as opposed to stop orders, one would expect positive slippage, but few systems seem to set orders picking tops and bottoms, most follow trend and stop into the market.
So unless orders are placed as stop and limit orders, with some distance from current market price, you can encounter problems. I don't think every system will work well with fx-auto, so you have to demo first maybe and see how it plays out.
For signal providers who also track their system at FX-auto, they can then see what adjustments they might have to make by watching as the trades play out. My first month at fx-auto we lost over 600 pips on execution problems, but solutions for that are now in place.
So fx-auto can work well for some systems in my opinion, but not for all. Any system with speed would no doubt fail via email order placement.
Hope some of that helps. |
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| | In response to post by Dan Hubrich of 5/31/06 (11:04) I've been trading the Aestreux fund live via C2/Fx-auto for the last 3 days and my results are about 50% of the publishe...
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C2 doesn't use a "'crazy' Barclays feed" anymore for most forex pairs. In fact, we IDEALPRO for almost all forex pairs.
Without knowing specifics trades you are talking about, I can't comment on the reasons why your results on FX-Auto are substantially different from C2's fills.
I can only offer the following possibilities:
(1) C2 uses Interactive Brokers' IDEALPRO prices; FX-Auto uses FXDD. In theory they should be very close since both are extremely competitive dealers with tight spreads. But they are not always identical.
(2) There is some latency in getting signals from C2 to Fx-Auto. Not much -- just a few seconds at most, but that could possibly cause some slippage.
(3) Finally, keep in mind the rule of "just-touched" limit orders. If a trading system uses limits, you are 100% guaranteed to get filled on losing trades, but only somewhat likely to get filled on winners. That's the nature of limit orders. I'm not sure whether that applies here.
I'll let Greg and Lior from FX-Auto address the particulars of the trades you received slippage on, since FX-Auto is the service provider of record. I'm happy to answer any questions that I can about C2 stuff, of course.
Matthew |
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| Subject: | Fx-auto/C2 live results are WAY OFF!!!! |
| Posted by: | Dan Hubrich ( C2 Score: 723) |
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| When: | 5/31/06 (15:13) | |
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| | In response to post by Matthew Klein of 5/31/06 (13:51) C2 doesn't use a "'crazy' Barclays feed" anymore for most forex pairs. In fact, we IDEALPRO for almost all forex pairs....
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Thanks Mathew,
I'll contact fx-auto on the trades that had particularly large slippage. Can you comment on winning forex' statement that trades sometimes take 2 minutes to go from C2 to fx-auto? |
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| | In response to post by Dan Hubrich of 5/31/06 (15:13) Thanks Mathew,
I'll contact fx-auto on the trades that had particularly large slippage. Can you comment on winn...
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I have no idea why that would be. The good news is that C2 keeps audit trails for everything; if you think this delay is real, provide a signal id number and tell me whose AutoTrade account required 2 minutes, and I'll cross-check with the server logs. It seems unlikely, but I have been wrong before. Give me the info to start investigating, and I will. - MK |
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| Subject: | Fx-auto/C2 live results are WAY OFF!!!! |
| Posted by: | winning forex ( C2 Score: 194) |
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| When: | 5/31/06 (15:29) | |
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| | In response to post by Matthew Klein of 5/31/06 (13:51) C2 doesn't use a "'crazy' Barclays feed" anymore for most forex pairs. In fact, we IDEALPRO for almost all forex pairs....
See entire
If its true that only a few seconds latency at the most is taken to PLACE a trade, then going through c2 rather than a system provider who emails trades to FX-auto would be the better solution. So any providers who are at fx-auto now, and having email speed problems, could just run through C2 to end that issue.
However there must be something else at work here, since fx-auto assures me our direct emails will get placed faster then c2 orders.
So the question I see for me is.... which gets the orders to fx-auto and has them PLACED faster?
1) email to fx-auto
2) place trade at c2 then to fx-auto
for tradestation users
1) TS to fx-auto via email
2) TS to C2 to fx-auto
After hearing from both sides now, I still have no idea. Logic tells me, (but I may be missing something here), IF c2 to fx-auto only takes 2 seconds, and I know TS to c2 takes only 1 second, that is three seconds total. TS to fx-auto can take a minute sometimes. So no question which one is faster. But Fx-auto says the c2 orders get placed second. So I am still lost.
Bottom line, if there is a faster way to place orders, signal providers might like to know.
Is it possible you refer to the speed of SENDING the signals Mathew, and not the actual PLACEMENT of them?? |
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| Subject: | Fx-auto/C2 live results are WAY OFF!!!! |
| Posted by: | winning forex ( C2 Score: 194) |
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| When: | 5/31/06 (15:31) | |
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| | In response to post by Dan Hubrich of 5/31/06 (15:13) Thanks Mathew,
I'll contact fx-auto on the trades that had particularly large slippage. Can you comment on winn...
See entire
I don't think I said that trades from C2 to fx-auto can take up to two minutes. I meant emailed trades to fx-auto can take that long. I have no idea how the speed is from c2 to fx-auto other than Mathew saying it takes 2 seconds or so. |
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| Subject: | Fx-auto/C2 live results are WAY OFF!!!! |
| Posted by: | Sam Cook ( C2 Score: 276) |
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| When: | 5/31/06 (16:01) | |
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| | In response to post by Dan Hubrich of 5/31/06 (11:04) I've been trading the Aestreux fund live via C2/Fx-auto for the last 3 days and my results are about 50% of the publishe...
See entire
"I've been trading the Aestreux fund live via C2/Fx-auto for the last 3 days and my results are about 50% of the published gains on C2. All the winners are smaller in real life and all the losers are bigger."
I commented on market orders getting a "free ride" in earlier posts. From my experience, market orders that go from A to B to C in fast moving markets will have lots of slippage.
Stops and MITs (i.e. market orders already in place at the exchange servers or pits) will have the least slippage. Of course not all systems can use stops and/or MITs, but if they can, they should have less slippage and deserve better RFs than those using market orders. As best I can tell this is not the case with the RF on C2 now. Many FX systems on C2 that use market orders have RF's of 97+. If "my results are about 50% of the published gains on C2. All the winners are smaller in real life and all the losers are bigger" than RF's in the 90-99 range are out of line. |
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| | In response to post by winning forex of 5/31/06 (15:29) If its true that only a few seconds latency at the most is taken to PLACE a trade, then going through c2 rather than a system provider who emails trades to FX-auto would be the better solution. So any providers who are at fx-auto now, and having email speed problems, could just run through C2 to end that issue....
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I don't want to denigrate my new business partners at FX-Auto.
I can tell you only that from my point of view, if you are a signal provider, the best course of action is to make sure your signals get put into the C2 database first. I assure you that once you enter your trades into C2, they get sent to all autotrading platforms equally quickly. |
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| Subject: | Fx-auto/C2 live results are WAY OFF!!!! |
| Posted by: | winning forex ( C2 Score: 194) |
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| When: | 5/31/06 (17:07) | |
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| | In response to post by Matthew Klein of 5/31/06 (16:15) I don't want to denigrate my new business partners at FX-Auto.
I can tell you only that from my point of view, ...
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I'm going to test it next week and then I'll know which is faster. |
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| Subject: | Fx-auto/C2 live results are WAY OFF!!!! |
| Posted by: | Dora Scotch |
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| When: | 5/31/06 (18:50) | |
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| | In response to post by Matthew Klein of 5/31/06 (16:15) I don't want to denigrate my new business partners at FX-Auto.
I can tell you only that from my point of view, ...
See entire
Here is a example of larger slippage than I expected. I auto traded Aestreux last night, GBP/USD using TB to IB. The slippage is 5 to 6 pip in each direction.
TB shows
Long 1.8827
21:41:17 (PST) Short 1.8843
C2 shows
00:02:32 am Buy to Open
Likely fill @1.88210 00:02
00:40:29 am Sell to Close
Likely fill @1.88480 00:40
Is the way C2 sends signal to trading platform sames as described in the C2ATI, ie poll through HTTP every 3 seconds? Then how come some people complain about the signal delay over a minute? Also is the system time on C2 server correct? If it is correct, why it took over 45 seconds to fill a order? Where did the time go? How much time does it take from C2 receive a singal from system provide to trading platform receives it? |
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| Subject: | Fx-auto/C2 live results are WAY OFF!!!! |
| Posted by: | Sam Cook ( C2 Score: 276) |
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| When: | 6/01/06 (11:33) | |
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| | In response to post by Dora Scotch of 5/31/06 (18:50) Here is a example of larger slippage than I expected. I auto traded Aestreux last night, GBP/USD using TB to IB. The slippage is 5 to 6 pip in each direction....
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"Here is a example of larger slippage than I expected. I auto traded Aestreux last night, GBP/USD using TB to IB. The slippage is 5 to 6 pip in each direction."
Given reports like this it would be nice to see P/L per unit, but C2 shows:
"P/L per unit n/a"
OTOH:
"BTO 200 GBP/USD 1.88140 5/31/06 STC 200 1.88320 5/31/06 2:20 $3,600 "
Why "n/a"? Why not $3,600 / 200 = $18. P/L per unit on this trade is $18, right? What am I missing? Conversion to pips? Pips @ $10 would be 1.8 pips.
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| Subject: | Fx-auto/C2 live results are WAY OFF!!!! |
| Posted by: | Reinhard Schu ( C2 Score: 958) |
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| When: | 6/01/06 (16:20) | |
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| | In response to post by winning forex of 5/31/06 (12:05) I've been using fx-auto for months now. Here is some info that will hopefully help.
1) I used to place all my signal...
See entire
"What happens at c2 is never the same as fx-auto. There is always slippage one way or the other."
I disagree that c2 and the markets are not the same. I manually traded Astereux for a while sitting in froont of the screen and manually executing the trades as they came in on the IM window straight into Oanda, and I ALWAYS got exatcly the same price as indicated on C2 or perhaps 1 or 2 pips out if the price moved quickly during the time it took me to manually place the trade.
Needless to say, I could not keep this up for long. You go crazy if you sit in front of the screen trading like this. |
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| Subject: | Fx-auto/C2 live results are WAY OFF!!!! |
| Posted by: | Dan Hubrich ( C2 Score: 723) |
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| When: | 6/01/06 (20:35) | |
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| | In response to post by Reinhard Schu of 6/01/06 (16:20) "What happens at c2 is never the same as fx-auto. There is always slippage one way or the other."
I d...
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Fx-auto live fills are consistently (at least) 2 pips off on every entry and every exit. So each Aestreux trade is at minimum 4 pips worse off than what's posted! I've seen as much as 10-15 pips slippage but 4-5 per trade seems pretty consistent. Then you also need to figure fx-auto's 1 pip commission.
With the fund trading 5-10 times per day that means we need to make 500-1,000 pips per month just to break even. NOT GOOD! Seems like there is still some work to do with this C2/Fx-auto marriage. |
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