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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Derek Frey (Admin) ( C2 Score: 130 ) |
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| When: | 3/20/09 (8:11) | |
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| | So yes we have seen some wild volatility these last few days. I am not about to make an excuse as i do not need one. As markets blew off slippage on my real accounts was massive and i simply chose to ride it out instead of simply handing money over to the other side for no reason. Again I am not doing this for the outside world nor am i concerned with my "internal" numbers. The only thing that matters is the long term bottom line. Like I said this is an aggressive account and one should expect lots of volatility ( i did say i am using up to 10X leverage and anyone who did not realize that that kind of leverage can easily lead to wild swings needs to wake up). I am not running a mutual fund here nor do i want to. Again i am not doing this for others nor did i ever say that i would have a smooth equity curve. Also for those already feeling "right"...i don't hear a fat lady singing yet... I appreciate your comments and look forward to more comments but i will no longer waste my time with the chat as i can see that it is really only used by a few who are in constant need of an ego stroke. |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | James Nelson ( C2 Score: 982) |
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| When: | 3/20/09 (9:13) | |
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| | In response to post by Derek Frey of 3/20/09 (8:11) So yes we have seen some wild volatility these last few days. I am not about to make an excuse as i do not need one. A...
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Did anyone say anything negative, I must have missed the public comments. If there were none, I would hardly call that an ego boost!
Anyway, thanks for the explanation. When I see a draw down like that, I always wonder if the vendor did not decide to purposefully dump the account (knowing that no one is trading it), to detract interest or some other reason.
So, you are still 100% in the game and the fat lady is not even warming-up?
Jim
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Tommy Pryor |
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| When: | 3/20/09 (9:22) | |
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| | In response to post by Derek Frey of 3/20/09 (8:11) So yes we have seen some wild volatility these last few days. I am not about to make an excuse as i do not need one. A...
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For all the experience and credentials you allegedly have, you sure made a rookie mistake by blowing out half your account in 2 or 3 days. Oh, but now that doesn't matter, because you are "not doing it for the outside world" and only the "bottom line" matters? And apparently this debacle is everyone's else fault, because "I never said I would have a smooth equity curve" and "anyone who did not realize that that kind of leverage can easily lead to wild swings needs to wake up."?
Here I thought you were a 20 year professional who knew the ropes, and I was pretty close to signing up based on your credentials and performance. Oh boy. Now, any potential client of yours (in or out of C2) will FOREVER see how you really perform, when you can't hide behind complicated explanations, failed predictions and scientific mumbo jumbo.
I should have been tipped off from day one that someone who could not even spell "mathematics" (see your description) probably was a piker.
Now you've decided to take your toys and go home, by not participating in chat. What a loss for everyone!
Guess "poking the bear" isn't that fun when the bear bites back, huh?
TP |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | James Nelson ( C2 Score: 982) |
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| When: | 3/20/09 (9:31) | |
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| | In response to post by Tommy Pryor of 3/20/09 (9:22) For all the experience and credentials you allegedly have, you sure made a rookie mistake by blowing out half your accou...
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TP
I do agree with your assessment, but maybe not your harsh tone.
My first thought with that drop, "where's the stop". 40%+ in 2-3days on one trade is really not smart. If it were 2-10 consecutive trades, I would give it a break.
Jim
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Derek Frey (Admin) ( C2 Score: 130) |
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| When: | 3/20/09 (9:44) | |
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| | In response to post by Tommy Pryor of 3/20/09 (9:22) For all the experience and credentials you allegedly have, you sure made a rookie mistake by blowing out half your accou...
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Again i am just not even sure why i bother to respond...just keep doing your thing and i will do mine...and yes my spelling sucks as i am dyslexic... And actually i do not mind the bite at all. This is not a 401k account this is a swing for the fence account. sorry if that bothers many here. Again i just am not here for the same reasons the rest of you are...I am happy to see that you are all ready to run at the first sign of adversity...good luck with that. |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | James Nelson ( C2 Score: 982) |
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| When: | 3/20/09 (10:18) | |
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| | In response to post by Derek Frey of 3/20/09 (9:44) Again i am just not even sure why i bother to respond...just keep doing your thing and i will do mine...and yes my spell...
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I will certainly run from your attitude, enough said. All the best.
Jim |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Index ( C2 Score: 976) |
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| When: | 3/20/09 (10:43) | |
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| | In response to post by Derek Frey of 3/20/09 (9:44) Again i am just not even sure why i bother to respond...just keep doing your thing and i will do mine...and yes my spell...
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"I am happy to see that you are all ready to run at the first sign of adversity...good luck with that. "
No, they are running from the first sign that you are an undisciplined trader, who is getting slammed because he is a paper trader, not someone showing any sign of being a longterm industry professional as you claimed. I have directly worked in the financial industry for approx 7 years (IBs, and trading arms of matjor insurance companies).
I have rarely seen such a combination of self-importance and brushing off your inabilities to manage trades or money. Everything you say is making you look stupid, not "swinging for the fences." Every serious trader knows about "Risk of Ruin" and "Risk-Adjusted Reward". You personally, come across as someone who read "Trading for Dummies", opened a C2 account, lied to the max about your credentials, bad-mouthed people who obviously know much more than you, blew up quickly, and are now trying to brush it off as experimentation.
You seem to think everyone is stupid. When everyone else is "wrong" then you need to consider the problem is entirely with yourself. |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Derek Frey (Admin) ( C2 Score: 130) |
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| When: | 3/20/09 (11:26) | |
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| | In response to post by Index of 3/20/09 (10:43) "I am happy to see that you are all ready to run at the first sign of adversity...good luck with that. "
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i looked at your "systems" and you are really one to talk about anything...that being said...why is your ignore rating at 74% of all people here???...i am not nor was i prancing around trying to say i am the man...far from it...i just took great offense to you claiming to be the only professional here and by the number of others who responded to that one i can see i was not alone. I am not trying to run the Fidelity fund here...i am doing a super aggressive strategy and i spelled that out up front... So anyway just keep chatting away and let the rest of us trade. |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Index ( C2 Score: 976) |
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| When: | 3/20/09 (11:32) | |
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| | In response to post by Derek Frey of 3/20/09 (11:26) i looked at your "systems" and you are really one to talk about anything...that being said...why is your ignor...
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"i looked at your "systems" and you are really one to talk about anything"
There is nothing resembling a 50% blowup, nor crowing about my self like you do. But I see now you want to distract from your own words and mismanagement.
"i am not nor was i prancing around trying to say i am the man...far from it"
Your memory is very short. You were dissing others and proclaiming yourself quite clearly on the chat area.
"i just took great offense to you claiming to be the only professional here"
I never claimed this. |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Tommy Pryor |
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| When: | 3/20/09 (12:17) | |
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| | In response to post by Derek Frey of 3/20/09 (8:11) So yes we have seen some wild volatility these last few days. I am not about to make an excuse as i do not need one. A...
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3/20/09 8:11 ET Derek: "...but i will no longer waste my time with the chat as i can see that it is really only used by a few who are in constant need of an ego stroke..."
Chatter:
3/20/09 10:34 ET Derek: "ok index lets go..."
3/20/09 11:50 ET Derek: " i would say your ignore..."
You kept your word for a whole 143 minutes. Tells you how much anything you say can be believed. Way to go.
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Index ( C2 Score: 976) |
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| When: | 3/20/09 (13:22) | |
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| | In response to post by Tommy Pryor of 3/20/09 (12:17) 3/20/09 8:11 ET Derek: "...but i will no longer waste my time with the chat as i can see that it is really only used by a few who are in constant need of an ego stroke..."
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he has also gotten amnesia about his bragging of his abilities and denigrating people on C2 as basically laughable.
That plus his rotten money management skills (attempting to be disguised as just using extreme volatility) says a lot about his reliability and truthfulness. |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Eu New ( C2 Score: 965) |
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| When: | 3/22/09 (18:05) | |
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| | In response to post by Index of 3/20/09 (13:22) he has also gotten amnesia about his bragging of his abilities and denigrating people on C2 as basically laughable.
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Honestly, I think that somebody uses "Derek Frey" name at C2.
Regarding aggressive trading. Best "aggressive" C2's system made ~7 mils paper money from 100K in practically no time. "Flying Pink Pig". So the "Derek Frey" is worse than even the example so far :)
Eu
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Gilbert Arevalo ( C2 Score: 995) |
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| When: | 3/22/09 (19:53) | |
| Systems: | ES Timer, Small Cap (3X) Timer, Small Cap (5X) Turbo Timer, UltraPro (3X) QQQ Timer, UltraPro (3X) SPX Timer, 29417555, 29594253, KC Covered Call Fund, KC E-mini (closed), KC Elite (closed), KC Futures (closed), KC Hedge (closed Dec 2010), KC Leader (closed), KC Legacy (closed), KC Partners (closed), KC QLD/QID (closed Feb 2011), KC's ES Madness-old, KC's NQ Extreme-old, KC's NQ Madness (closed), KC's QLD/QID Madness (closed), Kingdom Capital Funds |
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| | In response to post by Eu New of 3/22/09 (18:05) Honestly, I think that somebody uses "Derek Frey" name at C2.
Regarding aggressive trading. Best "aggressive" C2's system made ~7 mils paper money from 100K in practically no time. "Flying Pink Pig". So the "Derek Frey" is worse than even the example so far :)
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Not to be too much hater considering I currently am a bit in drawdown KC Hedge (closed Dec 2010), but maybe "flaming" will encourage Derek to be stand up guy and keep up with the community (don't quietly go away, grow and learn with the rest of us).
I regret that Chaos' staunch losses would have greatly benefitted C2 contra-system with gains had I included it in my watchlist. Might as well make some good from the hi-flyer tumults!
Regards,
Gilbert |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Financial Scientist ( C2 Score: 770) |
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| When: | 3/22/09 (22:26) | |
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| | In response to post by Eu New of 3/22/09 (18:05) Honestly, I think that somebody uses "Derek Frey" name at C2.
Regarding aggressive trading. Best "aggressive" C2's system made ~7 mils paper money from 100K in practically no time. "Flying Pink Pig". So the "Derek Frey" is worse than even the example so far :)
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I do not rescind the newbie comment at all, as it was obvious when you were doing well that trading was new to you. |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Index ( C2 Score: 976) |
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| When: | 3/23/09 (8:41) | |
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| | In response to post by Financial Scientist of 3/22/09 (22:26) I do not rescind the newbie comment at all, as it was obvious when you were doing well that trading was new to you.
Well, I see Derek is still driving the system underwater. I suppose he is using reverse psychology...(sign up and contra trade us!!!) |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | James Nelson ( C2 Score: 982) |
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| When: | 3/23/09 (11:00) | |
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| | In response to post by Index of 3/23/09 (8:41)
Well, I see Derek is still driving the system underwater. I suppose he is using reverse psychology...(sign up and contra trade us!!!)
I hope this system is not an example of good Forex trading, at any risk level.
Certainly the fat lady is signing by now. With Forex scalping, since there is always another wave on the horizon, why would anyone want to hold onto such a big loser for so long? If done right, I would think it should take a few big consecutive losing trades to see such a draw down.
Does anyone who is following this thread have an opinion as to how much draw down should be allowed with a Forex scalper like Chaos?
Jim
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Financial Scientist ( C2 Score: 770) |
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| When: | 3/23/09 (12:48) | |
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| | In response to post by James Nelson of 3/23/09 (11:00) I hope this system is not an example of good Forex trading, at any risk level.
Certainly the fat lady is signing by now. With Forex scalping, since there is always another wave on the horizon, why would anyone want to hold onto such a big loser for so long? If done right, I would think it should take a few big consecutive losing trades to see such a draw down....
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I'd put 20%-30% on that range, but that's a maximal value. |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Index ( C2 Score: 976) |
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| When: | 3/23/09 (13:14) | |
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| | In response to post by James Nelson of 3/23/09 (11:00) I hope this system is not an example of good Forex trading, at any risk level.
Certainly the fat lady is signing by now. With Forex scalping, since there is always another wave on the horizon, why would anyone want to hold onto such a big loser for so long? If done right, I would think it should take a few big consecutive losing trades to see such a draw down....
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why would anyone want to hold onto such a big loser for so long?
Ask Mr. Derek, the 20 year trading industry veteran with a high opinion of himself, who is only here until he decides to leave, who walks at a level much higher than us laughable duffers. |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Financial Scientist ( C2 Score: 770) |
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| When: | 3/23/09 (15:32) | |
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| | In response to post by Index of 3/23/09 (13:14) why would anyone want to hold onto such a big loser for so long?
Ask Mr. Derek, the 20 year trading i...
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And with a description like this:
"Thinking outside the box – The math that has gone into the program is unique and is the result of a new approach to cycle analysis. Similar to but vastly superior to Fourier Analysis, our creative approach is not available anywhere else. The technique for extracting cyclical activity, and also detrending raw data, is what allows us to produce unique analysis.
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How can we doubt his ability to run a fund?
Of course, it has to be superior to Fourier Analysis. This is the stupid part, math is not creative. It's math. This would have been the tip off of BS if people read into it, but since there haven't been any negative reviews, no one was fooled by Derek's facade, thankfully. |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Index ( C2 Score: 976) |
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| When: | 3/23/09 (22:31) | |
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| | In response to post by Financial Scientist of 3/23/09 (15:32) And with a description like this:
"Thinking outside the box – The math that has gone into the program is unique and is the result of a new approach to cycle analysis. Similar to but vastly superior to Fourier Analysis, our creative approach is not available anywhere else. The technique for extracting cyclical activity, and also detrending raw data, is what allows us to produce unique analysis....
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Math, Analysis, Fourier, Cycles, Chaos, Fractals, etc. etc. etc. are irrelevant. Elliott Wave, Gann, Fib, technical indicators, Astro, and many other things. People bow and prostrate and pray before these various theories.
The problem? The market has zero interest in people's theories. It is hypercomplex, and regardless of what people say, it is very efficient (with a trend component or "drift."). The market doesn't consult someone's spectral analysis and 10,14,18, 28, whatever "underlying" cycles. IT JUST MOVES WHERE IT WANTS TO GO.
I spend quite a bit of time on several forums, battling newbie paper traders, who argue vehemently on their pet theories. I say "WHERE IS THE PROOF????" And the replies? "Theory X works because it is self-fulfilling, or I know Trader Y who is very successful (always, "I have a friend who...)"
Sorry, but I demand an edge -demonstrated by a good equity curve, good track record and good stats. Otherwise, I consider their theories as fertilizer.
People cannot write checks based on a 9 day cycle. They CAN write checks based on REAL LONGTERM PROFITS.
Sadly, that is very lacking. But the believers keep crawling out of the woodwork with pet theories, and then disappear a few months later.
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Financial Scientist ( C2 Score: 770) |
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| When: | 3/24/09 (18:40) | |
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| | In response to post by Index of 3/23/09 (22:31) Math, Analysis, Fourier, Cycles, Chaos, Fractals, etc. etc. etc. are irrelevant. Elliott Wave, Gann, Fib, technical indicators, Astro, and many other things. People bow and prostrate and pray before these various theories....
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This just gets to the heart of what a real financial model does, which is to predict a value for a security. That's all I can call my system, a fair value predictor. I guess you could say that's what all systems on here are, but if they're not using components like volatility, risk-free rates, time to maturity, etc, it's not really what I'd call a financial model.
Basically Black-Scholes is at the heart of what I happen to do with my money, but there's a lot of indicators out there that can trick you into thinking otherwise.
Believer do tend to show up just when the equity curve goes south. I believe the viability of long term systems has to do with expectancy. By limiting losses "AND" winning more than a majority of the time, I think there's a lot of systems that will last through the years, but they're not pretty ones.
Apparently my best work isn't a pretty one, but I know it'll get the job done.
Pet theories are fun. Starting from scratch sucks, though. I don't think I've even seen new theories arrive out in WL land for a long time. Basically what is there is a re-hashing of older theories. Like mine, which has its shell program from theories and research going back to the 80's in pairs trading algorithms.
I've not seen any evidence of technical analysis being viable. The biggest difference is distinguishing quantitative methods from technical indicators.
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Index ( C2 Score: 976) |
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| When: | 3/24/09 (19:25) | |
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| | In response to post by Financial Scientist of 3/24/09 (18:40) This just gets to the heart of what a real financial model does, which is to predict a value for a security. That's all I can call my system, a fair value predictor. I guess you could say that's what all systems on here are, but if they're not using components like volatility, risk-free rates, time to maturity, etc, it's not really what I'd call a financial model....
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It is amazing how many people on other forums I have directed to prove their claims on places like collective2. They usually resort to anything BUT getting proven. That is all I ever need to know about someone who says they have the power!
I know there are some things that work. But it is rarely in Technical Analysis 101 books, where "the 95% that lose" usually start. But it is very difficult to pry them away from their tech indicators or other beloved theories
Funny thing though. After they blow out an account, they often become more receptive to "other ideas." |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Financial Scientist ( C2 Score: 770) |
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| When: | 3/24/09 (23:32) | |
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| | In response to post by Index of 3/24/09 (19:25)
It is amazing how many people on other forums I have directed to prove their claims on places like collective2. They usually resort to anything BUT getting proven. That is all I ever need to know about someone who says they have the power!
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It does seem to take that account blowout to "open their eyes." Most people out there claiming to be profitable I can easily discredit by asking them to come to collective2. Apparently 100% of the people I've asked to prove themselves here don't even have $98 to do it, which is just further proof of their delusions of grandeuer.
Kind of like Derek, here.... |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Financial Scientist ( C2 Score: 770) |
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| When: | 3/24/09 (23:35) | |
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| | In response to post by Derek Frey of 3/20/09 (8:11) So yes we have seen some wild volatility these last few days. I am not about to make an excuse as i do not need one. A...
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Yo, derek, heading below 100 is for somebody who has no clue what they are doing. You at 14 just put the nail in the coffin on that one. Go spend some time building mechanical systems, and come back in two or three years. You'll be the better for it, but nothing without this time of self-study. |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Financial Scientist ( C2 Score: 770) |
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| When: | 3/24/09 (23:39) | |
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| | In response to post by Financial Scientist of 3/24/09 (23:35) Yo, derek, heading below 100 is for somebody who has no clue what they are doing. You at 14 just put the nail in the co...
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Here's even more advice to you, Derek. Before I came on here, I spent years looking at what works through system development on wl4.wealth-lab.com. I only brought the system that I knew would be marketable with half of the backtested APR and twice the DD. That's essentially what you see with PTQQS today. The last year hasn't been particularly profitable, but the periods during times of normalcy were amazing, to say the least. But, being experienced, I knew much more volatility was ahead that would have an impact on profits.
Anyway, go find something you can be confident in, even if it makes half the APR and twice the drawdown than the backtest going forward. It will still have positive expectancy. |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Steve Auger ( C2 Score: 978) |
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| When: | 3/25/09 (7:37) | |
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| | In response to post by Derek Frey of 3/20/09 (8:11) So yes we have seen some wild volatility these last few days. I am not about to make an excuse as i do not need one. A...
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"i simply chose to ride it out instead of simply handing money over to the other side for no reason."
You had a reason for handing it over to the other side?
"Again I am not doing this for the outside world"
Why are you posting for the outside world then? Just hand over your money in silence. You don't have to point it out to the entire world!
Sorry for jumping on the bandwagon but this is so laughable I couldn't resist. |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Eu New ( C2 Score: 965) |
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| When: | 3/29/09 (19:47) | |
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| | In response to post by Financial Scientist of 3/22/09 (22:26) I do not rescind the newbie comment at all, as it was obvious when you were doing well that trading was new to you.
Leave the boy alone with his fame ;)
Personally I've found the guy very amused. He used right words and conceptions theoretically, but he wasn't able to make the conceptions practically. I can say that the "Derek" is almost right in most of his assumptions. From other point I didn't believe that zillions years professional ("google me!") would introduce the kind of bravado. Simply, we have a deal with a "kid" under stolen name of real person, imho. Very funny.
Eu
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| | In response to post by Eu New of 3/29/09 (19:47) Leave the boy alone with his fame ;)
Personally I've found the guy very amused. He used right words and concept...
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Finally blew the whole account, when I thought he'd have enough sense to quit after losing 30%. |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Index ( C2 Score: 976) |
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| When: | 6/19/09 (11:19) | |
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| | In response to post by Financial Scientist of 6/19/09 (0:27) Finally blew the whole account, when I thought he'd have enough sense to quit after losing 30%.
Perhaps Chaos was the money management, rather than the trading method. |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | James Nelson ( C2 Score: 982) |
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| When: | 6/19/09 (11:53) | |
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| | In response to post by Index of 6/19/09 (11:19) Perhaps Chaos was the money management, rather than the trading method.
Sign me up! What a nice money management system. If only money had a nice smokey flavor (like Hickory), I could have cooked a pig on it.
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Eu New ( C2 Score: 965) |
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| When: | 6/19/09 (19:10) | |
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| | In response to post by Financial Scientist of 6/19/09 (0:27) Finally blew the whole account, when I thought he'd have enough sense to quit after losing 30%.
Well... He would write a book about improper MM that is based on his "real" 20 years experience. Indexes will buy the book from their pocket money that mommy gives for lunch. Finally, he would make more from teaching about MM than from trading. (smile)
Eu
P.S. I would not bet who is smarter. somebody who teach how to trade or somebody who trades. |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Eu New ( C2 Score: 965) |
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| When: | 6/19/09 (19:42) | |
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| | In response to post by Eu New of 3/29/09 (19:47) Leave the boy alone with his fame ;)
Personally I've found the guy very amused. He used right words and concept...
See entire
btw: it looks like C2 had a deal with real Derek Frey. "Google him!". lol Otherwise no one person who makes a money from teaching will take the kind of usage of "brand name" easy.
Eu
P.S. so I have to admit my mistake it looks like it was guru Derek Frey himself. (smile)
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | nigel cole ( C2 Score: 721) |
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| When: | 6/21/09 (7:03) | |
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| | In response to post by Eu New of 6/19/09 (19:42) btw: it looks like C2 had a deal with real Derek Frey. "Google him!". lol Otherwise no one person who makes a money from teaching will take the kind of usage of "brand name" easy....
See entire
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Index ( C2 Score: 976) |
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| When: | 6/21/09 (9:36) | |
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| | In response to post by nigel cole of 6/21/09 (7:03) Of course there is nothing in the following website page to suggest that Derek Frey is something of a scam artist, but it is worth a look, even if only for comedies sake:
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the webpage si a typical template bought off Ebay for $10. They use a lot of shock and awe, but are usually long on testimonials and hype and short on proof. |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Eu New ( C2 Score: 965) |
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| When: | 6/22/09 (10:07) | |
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| | In response to post by nigel cole of 6/21/09 (7:03) Of course there is nothing in the following website page to suggest that Derek Frey is something of a scam artist, but it is worth a look, even if only for comedies sake:
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Of course there is nothing in the following website page to suggest that Derek Frey is something of a scam artist
Actually, it is. The first of all the testimonial is made in exactly scam pattern way. A lot of emotional manipulative pushing to buy something for becoming rich in few secs and nothing from proving side. The second if somebody makes 50% annually in 20 years why the somebody needs to sell his experience for miserable 20 bucks?
Last year Buffet sold a lunch with him for $2.1 mils. And the miserable, poor Buffet doesn't make 50% per year in last 20 years. (smile)
Eu
P.S. Only one thing is puzzling me. Why Derek even came to C2? Few bucks that he made from people doesn't costs the kind of publicity for him, imho.
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Tommy Pryor |
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| When: | 6/22/09 (11:04) | |
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| | In response to post by Eu New of 6/22/09 (10:07) Of course there is nothing in the following website page to suggest that Derek Frey is something of a scam artist
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I'll add my 1 cent...
I've seen a bunch of new developers here who are so called professionals. I was lambasted by one, who thought it was foolish of me to ask him if he traded his magic bean system with his own money. He is now gone. Some other dude, who has a website that says he was some kind of star trader, renamed all his systems "test" or something to that effect when he crashed them all. Then there is Mr. Frey - we all know his story.
I suspect they all think that because probably 9 out of 10 systems here fail, they can swoop in and clean up, because they have such a great system. What they fail to realize is that Collective2 is transparent, maybe too much so. Every wart and mole is exposed. These guys just didn't realize their slick salesmanship can't gloss over results everyone can easily see.
This place is an inferno for developers. Most enter, and quickly turn to ash.
Tommy |
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| Subject: | Volatility |
| Posted by: | Eu New ( C2 Score: 965) |
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| When: | 6/22/09 (13:16) | |
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| | In response to post by Tommy Pryor of 6/22/09 (11:04) I'll add my 1 cent...
I've seen a bunch of new developers here who are so called professionals. I was lambaste...
See entire
I was lambasted by one, who thought it was foolish of me to ask him if he traded his magic bean system with his own money.
Actually, around trading scam is very simplistic. First, you must become emotionally attached to scammer. Kind of, good, honest guy who will make for you few zillions for few cents. Second stage is playing Stockholm syndrome. It's normal, boring way of around trading scam. And the scammer has an indulgence from trading industry. "Past performance doesn't guarantee..." and so on.
I suspect they all think that because probably 9 out of 10 systems here fail, they can swoop in and clean up, because they have such a great system.
Well... I think Skip with his false Customer expectations is best example. Simply, you/subscribers aren't in role of a Customer (who always loose btw). Subscribers at C2 play a role of venture capitalists and there is huge difference between the two approaches. 8-9/10 fail ratio is normal for venture, because the profitable 1-2 from10 makes the roll (smile).
Eu
P.S. Anyway, guru Derek was wrong when he came to C2. He probably ruin all the false testimonials business. |
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